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Wednesday, June 9, 2010
ARE YOU WIRED TO PLANT A CHURCH?
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8 comments:
Is it - Church Planting?
Or is it - Corporation Planting?
Or is it - Denomination Planting?
Can’t seem to find “church planting” in the Bible.
Did Jesus ask “His disciples” to “plant churches?”
When you hear words that are not in the Bible?
don’t you wonder why we use them?
and where they came from?
Isn’t it challenge enough understanding?
the truth of the words that are written?
How much harder word's that we make up?
Doesn’t the Bible warn us about;
The commandments of men?
The doctrines of men?
The philosophies of men?
The traditions of men?
That make the Word of God
of non effect?
Making the word of God of none effect
through your tradition...
Mark 7:13
Hmmm? A simple word, “church?”
What do most people understand
the word “church” to mean?
Building with a steeple on it?
Is that in the Bible?
Pastor in a pulpit preaching to people in pews?
Is that in the Bible?
That’s what the world thinks,
the unbeliever, isn’t it?
Isn’t that what the so called “local church plants”
has accomplished with four buildings on
four corners in a lot of “local towns?”
Haven't we deceived the people
we’re supposed to be reaching out to?
Does anyone know what the word “church” means?
Jesus. He is the head of the body, “The Church.
Amos, not a terribly bad run at this, but isn't it rather simple...
Disciple=Jesus follower
Disciples=church
Did not Jesus command us to go and make disciples, plural? Isn't that exactly what the apostles did?
Are you suggesting that if there are multiple Jesus followers in a city that they should not gather to worship, be taught, mutually edify and care for each other, and form a church softball team?:)
Paul
Partial agreement with what you say
about “Disciples” and “Church.”
I love softball. ;-) And...
I love to gather with “His Body.”
Disciple in the NT is the Gr = mathetes,
and means - a learner, pupil.
Can anyone (human) make a “learner” of Christ?
Someone who learns directly from Jesus?
You concluded... Disciple=Jesus follower
IMO - Disciple=learner and student of Jesus.
The word disciple means “a learner.”
That’s a little more than a follower.
That’s someone who sits at
Jesus’ feet and learns directly from Him.
When I attempted to make “Disciples.”
All I made was “Disciples of Amos.”
“Disciples” of “the Religious System” I was in.
They said and did what Amos did.
If a Baptist makes a disciple,
don’t they become “Disciples of Baptist?”
And say and do the things a Baptist does?
If a Pentacostal makes a disciple,
don’t they become “Disciples of Pentacostalism?”
And say and do the things a Pentacostal does?
Are they “learning” from Amos?
And NOT from Jesus?
When you attempt to make a disciple?
Are they “learning” from “you?”
And NOT from Jesus?
Isn’t the best we can teach someone
is that Jesus will teach them?
Jesus said,
It is written in the prophets,
And they shall be all taught of God.
John 6:45
Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice,
that he might instruct thee:
Deuteronomy 4:36
I will instruct thee and teach thee
in the way which thou shalt go:
I will guide thee with mine eye.
Psalms 32:8
Why do we not believe Jesus? when He says,
But the Comforter,
[which is] the Holy Ghost,
whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things...
John 14:26
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,
he will guide you into all truth...
John 16:13
Why do we not believe John? when He says,
Ye have an unction from the Holy One,
and ye *know all things.
1 John 2:20
*know = perceive, discern, discover.
These [things] have I written unto you
concerning them that seduce you.
But the anointing
which ye have received of him abideth in you,
and **ye need not that any man teach you:**
1 John 2:26-27
Maybe only Jesus can add unto the Ekklesia?
Maybe only Jesus can make a “Disciple of Christ?”
Be blessed...
Paul
Now about this word “church.”
Go to church? Local Church? My Church?
Your Church? Our Church? Church membership?
Can't find those terms in my antiquated KJV. :-(
Isn't it called "The Church of God?"
Jesus, “builds” and “adds to” “His Church?”
Jesus, He’s the head of the body,
(the ekklesia, the called out one's), "The Church?"
Jesus, shed "His Blood" to purchase "The Church?"
“The Church” is NOT - brick and morter.
“The Church” is NOT - a 501 (c) 3,
non-profit, tax $ deductible, religious coporation.
Did Jesus shed “His Blood” for a building, a denomination,
an organization, an institution, a corporation?
Should we call a Corporation - “His Church.” :-(
In the Bible, I found...
NO one ever went “To Church.”
NO one ever joined “A Church,”
NO one ever planted “A Church.”
NO one ever “Tithed” to a “Church.”
NO one brought their friends to “Church.”
NO one applied for “Church” membership.
NO buildings with Steeples called “Church.”
NO Pastors in Pulpits Preaching to People in Pews.
Does anyone know what the word “church” means?
“Traditions of men” nullify the word of God.
I love “The Church of God.”
It’s the church of man that gives God a bad name.
Lots of good points, A2Love, and it's good to be reminded that we are, to some degree, entrapped by corporate franchisism.
Sadly, no one, to my knowledge, in the Western World has yet shown us an organic, reproductive model that gets near the NT purity you describe. I think most all of us would be attracted to such. We know in our hearts that what we have is not really authentic NT Christianity, but someone needs to do something more than point out our flaws.
BTW, when we make Pentecostal disciples, the first thing we teach them is how to spell Pentecostal.:)
Paul
Thanks for the spelling tip.
Have to remember to always use my spell checker. :-(
You write...
“We know in our hearts that what we have
is not really authentic NT Christianity,
but someone needs to do something more
than point out our flaws.”
Me thinks someone did do something more. Jesus...
Why follow the church of man? The $ Corporation?
When you can follow Jesus? Isn’t Jesus our example?
Jesus humbled Himself, made Himself of NO reputation,
and took on the form of a “Servant.” Phil. 2:7-8.
...as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
John 20:21
Of course, in order to become a “Disciple of Christ,”
to learn from Him, NOT man, you must forsake “ALL.”
So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not “All” that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:33.
What “ALL,” riches, are you NOT willing to forsake?
“Titles” and “Position” comes with “A Little bit Extra.”
Power, Profit, Prestige, Honor, Glory, Reputation, etc..
Idols of the heart. Heavy weights difficult to lay down.
“ALL” those things Jesus spoke against. Yes?
“Pastors” become “Masters.” (Mat 23:10)
“Titles” become “Idols” (Ezk 14:1-7)
Most likely it’s different for everyone.
But, for me, I had to leave “The Religious System”
in order to find Jesus. Had to become a nobody, had to
forsake “Titles” and idols, in order to find “The Truth.”
Jesus in Mat 23:10 KJV, told **His disciples**
“NOT” to call themselves “Master / Leaders,”
for you have “ONE” “Master / Leader” “The Christ.”
King James Version -
Neither be ye called masters:
for one is your Master, even Christ.
The Interlinear Bible -
Nor be called leaders,
for one is your leader the Christ.
Phillips Modern English -
you must not let people call you leaders,
you have only one leader, Christ.
Today's English Version -
nor should you be called leader.
your one and only leader is the Messiah.
Jesus told **His disciples** not to be called “Leaders.”
and NONE did.
Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ,
Php 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ,
Col 4:12 Epaphras, ... a servant of Christ,
Tit 1:1 Paul, a servant of God,
Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God
2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant
**His Disciples** all called themselves “servants.”
None called themselves “Leaders.” None? None.
None called themselves “Servant-Leader.” None.
If Jesus instructed **His Disciples**
NOT to call themselves “Leaders”
and someone calls them self a “Leader"“
or thinks they are a “Leader;”
Are they NO longer **His Disciple?**
Have they given up their right to “Learn” from Jesus?
Why isn’t what Jesus said important? ;-)
Jesus did do something more...
Who’s voice do “you” listen to?
The voice of man? The $ Corporation? Or Jesus?
My sheep **hear my voice,** and I know them,
and they **follow me:** John 10:27.
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring, and they shall **hear my voice;**
and there shall be “ONE” fold, and “ONE” shepherd.
John 10:16
One Fold - One Shepherd - One Voice.
If Not Now, When?
Be blessed in your search for truth... Jesus
Me thinks, for all the truth you have shared, that you totally missed my point. We're not married, are we?:)
Paul
Oy vey! You had a point?
Sorry. Must have missed it.
I thought you just wanted to always do,
what you “see” others do, and like what they do,
without finding out why they do, what they do.
And, because you see a lot of other people do,
what other people do, you do the same thing, yes you do,
and you don’t do what Jesus wants you to do,
because you don’t go to Jesus and do
what Jesus wants you to do.
You just always do, what others taught you to do,
and want you to do,
pay, pray and obey,
so you don’t do what Jesus askes you to do,
you do what the church of man, “The Religious system”
The $ Corporation, wants you to do.
Even though you know it’s not what believers do,
when you read the Bible to “See” what you should do.
And, because you always do, what others do,
you become stuck in what you already do,
your traditions,
because every body else is stuck in what they do,
their traditions.
And your “Traditions” nullify “The Word of God.”
Yes they do.
And now, when you read the Word of God,
you try to make the Word of God fit
with what you already do,
because that’s what you were told to do,
and what you see others do,
because you think what other people do,
is already correct for you to do
because of what you see the other people do.
And they all do the same thing,
they read God’s Word and try to make it fit with what they already do so they don’t have to change and do something different from what other people do
and what they already do, their traditions.
And we know what happens when you don’t do,
what the big mucky mucks do. Your “Leaders” do.
If you don’t do, or can’t do, what they ask you to do,
pay, pray, and obey.
They ask you to go do what you do someplace else.
Seems mans traditions are nothing but a bunch of dodo.
Sounds like the religious crowd wants you to do,
the same dodo they do,
so they can feel good and comfortable
about what they do, their traditions.
What will you do?
about this dodo?
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